Since we are going OT anyway, my wife is planning to visit the lovely state
of Maine this summer with a couple of friends to do a walking tour. Any
suggestions from others familiar with the area? (We're in California.)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nancy Gish" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2002 12:02 PM
Subject: Re: OT: responding to prejudice
> I feel the need to repeat that Kate Troy's notions of Maine are extremely
> inaccurate and that having one friend in a state does not make one or
> friend representative.
> Date sent: Sun, 12 May 2002 14:43:49 -0400
> Send reply to: [log in to unmask]
> From: Kristina Morris Baumli <[log in to unmask]>
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: OT: responding to prejudice
> The "offensive views" proffered were these:
> Sorry to disagree with you, Nancy, but after 911, most people I know, in
> fact all people I know, hate and distrust Arabs. My best friend, Amy,
> lives in Maine, and she and others in her town do not have any good
> feelings toward Arabs (not that there are many there, expect the ones who
> slip through the Canadian border), so I don't know where in Maine you live
> in, but it must be an unusual area.
> My initial (and retracted) reaction was inappropriate; you are citing my
> mea culpa.
> My source for the 95% isextrapolated from the public source:
> which was part of a section discussing the payola scandal (radio
> stations are being compensated by Fox to run O'Reilly, rather than
> linked from the conservative/libertarian website: www.drudgereport.com
> My source for the 50% was a party-sponsored Zogby poll that was
> circulated among Democrats-- I believe it was also posted on ABC
> news, but I'm afraid that I lack the cite.
> To clarify my position: I never reductively stated conservative or ( for
> that matter liberal) views are in themselves "offensive." However, I do
> think that reductive, racist comments like Ms. Troy's are quite likely to
> be found on talk radio shows, which have a strong reputation for being
> (the term" feminazi" comes to mind.) I can't imagine NPR on the
> left, or George Will on the right saying anything so jejeune, so
> sophomoric, so reductive.
> As far as my classroom free speech query goes-- after you have
> finished retching-- perhaps you could advise me how you would deal in a
> classroom (my classes often include Arabs and other Muslims...) if a
> student made the above-cited statement? It would test my abilities to
> allow open discourse-- fortunately, although I've had lots of arguments in
> my classes< I've never had to deal with something like that.
> >>From: Michelle Hadden <[log in to unmask]>
> >>Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
> >>To: [log in to unmask]
> >>Subject: Re: OT: responding to prejudice
> >>Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 09:12:39 -0700 (PDT)
> >i apologize for having to use somebody's reply to a reply to respond to
> >this, but the initial post escaped me. i also apologize for a 100% OT
> >diatribe, but this pissed me off proper.
> ><snipped part about "efficacy of ignoring offfensive views">
> >>It's of interest, (at least to me) that 50 percent of Americans get at
> >>least part of their news from talk radio-- and 95 percent of talk radio
> >>hosts ascribe to views that are categorized as conservative to
> >>extremely conservative.Rush Limbaugh, Ollie North, Bill (payola)
> >>O'Reilly are taking over the American conversation.... Thus,
> >>unfortunately, the views "so rudely forced" onto this list are what a
> >>large population hears every day..... thus, even--especially?--when they
> >>intrude in this venue, it seems important to challenge these
> >>unfortunate ideas.
> >in theory, the theory works out well enough, but practice is less
> >than perfect. i believe whomever authored this post endeavored to
> >call "views that are categorized as extremely conservative" as
> >"offensive." if this is not the case, please correct me, but it
> >seems to me that "these unfortunate views" are directly linked to
> >those expressed by, eg, talk radio hosts like Limbaugh, North and
> >more recently, O'Reilly.
> >conservative opinions are automatically offensive?
> >conservative opinions are automatically prejudiced?
> >who died and left you big brother in charge?
> >i consider myself something of an inveterate fence-straddler, one of
> >those exasperating centrists that usually flips a coin before elections,
> >but it really ever-so pisses the jumping jesus on a pogo stick out of me
> >when tripe like this gets proclaimed with unabashed fervor. if 50% of
> >americans (according to whom?) make an active choice of picking up their
> >news from talk radio, how can they find it to be "offensive"? wouldn't
> >they be able to escape "these unfortunate views" with a flick of a
> >button? wouldn't they have hundreds of other different media outlets to
> >lend their ears/eyes to?
> >"95% of radio hosts ascribe to views that are categorized as
> >conservative to extremely conservative"--is this a real stat or an
> >apocryphal hyperbole? if the former, could you reference it, please?
> >could you specify who exactly categorizes these radio hosts as
> >conservative to extremely conservative, and according to what yardstick?
> >if the latter, here's a similar hyperbole: "flaming liberals enjoy
> >clubbing people over the head with bogus percentages pulled out of their
> >collective pinko ass."
> >> > I've never had a student like Kate in my classes. I've taught in
> >>public and private universities and underprivileged secondary
> >>schools) I take pride in allowing my students to voice their
> >>opinions openly, to disagree with me . I don't try to change their
> >>minds-- I try to teach them to argue.
> >pardon me while i evacuate myself to retch in a corner.
> >after succinctly relegating any and all sort of supposedly
> >conservative talk radio to the realm of "unfortunate views" you have the
> >gall to tag on a pathetic disclaimer of this sort? how does your
> >encouragement to voice one's opinions pan out? do you by any chance
> >accuse 50% of your classroom of perorating "offensive views"? or maybe
> >you affect a superior smile (the perennial favorite here at berkeley) and
> >subtly imply that the "unfortunate views" are the result of youthful
> >on that note, how can any opinion be offensive is it because it
> >differs in stance from your own? if that is the case, maybe your own
> >opinions are equally offensive to me and maybe 50% of americans who leave
> >their dial alone when one of these dreaded "conservative to extremely
> >conservative" talk show hosts comes on.
> >it irritates me to no end that a discussion prompted by the
> >assassination of a dutch right-winger somehow spiraled into what
> >seems to be a free-for-all mauling of conservative thinking. talk
> >about prejudice. for what it's worth, i'm equally repelled by
> >excesses to either side of the political spectrum, but this instance
> >seems particularly repugnant because there seems to be an underlying
> >trend of justification for this murder as the stifle of "offensive
> >views"--a parallel to the insane fervor europe's entire media to deny the
> >dubious character of lepen a chance to articulate anything.
> >and if that's offensive, your being offended is offensive to me.
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