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TSE  May 2002

TSE May 2002

Subject:

RE: prejudice

From:

"Arwin van Arum" <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 11 May 2002 00:41:21 +0200

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  Arwin:

  Reread my post:

  Not once did I mention the economic and political conglomerate called the
European Union.  I talked only of Europeans, a generally recognized
geographic description.  Surely you would accept that Bosnia is as European
as Italy.

Even in those terms I reject the term European. The cultures are too
different, as different as the US and Russia are at times.

  I am a vegan vegetarian and have some personal sympathy for your alleged
killer, however, I run totally out of intellectual sympathy and
understanding for assassins.  Political extremism is extremism whether it is
painted in agreeable colors or not.  Courts of law are coercive instruments
of government and are rooted in politics.  Your extremist assassin nut's use
of the courts speaks volumes for his political savvy but nothing as to his
moral or ethical maturity.  As I understand the penalties involved,  he has
risked 20 years confinement against terminating another's life.  Surely
there is no moral equivalence or tragic equality here.  Surely there is a
moral, ethical and tragic difference between the absolute of death and the
risk of confinement, a confinement where he will have every hope of
continuing his work.

It all depends on how consciously calculated his act has been. That will
also determine the sentence. He's also been linked to a previous murder,
that too will determine the maximum penalty. Of course death is the worst
and irrevocable evil that one man can do to another, but for that very
reason we should never go for the eye-for-an-eye. I will never condone his
act, but I know enough about the complexities of the human mind to be
interested in the how and why.

  Our brat (I agree totally with your assessment) didn't kill anyone.  He
terrorized a group of people in order to make a political statement.  So
far, in rare lucidity, the press has given his message little credence.
That terror will linger far beyond his acts.  I cited him as another example
of a prejudice which affords cover to despicable acts as long as the
perpetrator is of the proper political color (whatever that color might be).
Your attempt to make the tragedy of death equivalent with the tragedy of
killing is another example of that cover

  Pound once said that his only requirement of government was that it
provide order and support the arts.  Mussolini supported the arts, drained
swamps, got the trains running on time and given he was living in Italy
Pound became a Fascist.  The lesson; governments take extreme advantage of
the slightest carelessness of the citizen.  They bear watching closely.

  Rick Seddon
  McIntosh, NM, USA

I couldn't agree more. And if you give them the chance to abuse their power,
you have also your own negligence as a voter to blame. And if they do a
lousy job, it is your responsibility to become a politician yourself. Pim
Fortuyn has inspired many (as many disagreeing as agreeing I suppose) to
become more actively involved in politics. Including myself. Despite all the
good things that have been said about him, now even on this list, I
disagreed more than agreed with him and sometimes very strongly.
Nevertheless, he will be missed and I'd rather have seen whether he could
have achieved something or not, but not this terrible nothing, followed by
fan-atical idiolatry.

Yours,
Arwin

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style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
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  <DIV align=3Dleft class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr><FONT =
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  size=3D2><BR></DIV></FONT>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Arwin:</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Reread my post:</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3DArial>Not once did I mention the =
economic and=20
  political conglomerate called the European Union.&nbsp; I talked only =
of=20
  Europeans, a generally recognized geographic description.&nbsp; Surely =
you=20
  would accept that Bosnia is as European as Italy.<FONT =
color=3D#0000ff><SPAN=20
  class=3D949262022-10052002>&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3DArial><FONT color=3D#0000ff><SPAN=20
  =
class=3D949262022-10052002></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOC=
KQUOTE>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3DArial><FONT color=3D#0000ff><SPAN=20
class=3D949262022-10052002>Even in those terms I reject the term =
European. The=20
cultures are too different, as different as the US and Russia are at =
times.=20
&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3DArial>I am a vegan vegetarian and =
have some=20
  personal sympathy for your alleged killer, however, I run totally out =
of=20
  intellectual sympathy and understanding for assassins.&nbsp; Political =

  extremism is extremism whether it is&nbsp;painted in agreeable colors =
or=20
  not.&nbsp; Courts of law are coercive instruments of government and =
are rooted=20
  in politics.&nbsp; Your extremist&nbsp;assassin nut's use of the =
courts speaks=20
  volumes for his political savvy but nothing as to his moral or ethical =

  maturity.&nbsp; As I understand the penalties involved, &nbsp;he has =
risked 20=20
  years confinement against terminating&nbsp;another's life.&nbsp; =
Surely there=20
  is no moral equivalence&nbsp;or tragic equality here.&nbsp; Surely =
there is a=20
  moral, ethical and tragic difference&nbsp;between the absolute of=20
  death&nbsp;and the risk of confinement, a confinement where he will =
have every=20
  hope of continuing his work.<FONT color=3D#0000ff><SPAN=20
  class=3D949262022-10052002>&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3DArial><FONT color=3D#0000ff><SPAN=20
  =
class=3D949262022-10052002></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOC=
KQUOTE>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3DArial><FONT color=3D#0000ff><SPAN=20
class=3D949262022-10052002>It all depends on how consciously calculated =
his act=20
has been.&nbsp;That will also determine the sentence. He's also been =
linked to a=20
previous&nbsp;murder, that&nbsp;too will determine the maximum penalty. =
Of=20
course death is the worst and irrevocable evil that one man can do to =
another,=20
but&nbsp;for that very reason we should never&nbsp;go for the =
eye-for-an-eye. I=20
will never condone his act, but I know enough about the complexities of =
the=20
human mind to be interested in the how and=20
why.&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Our brat (I agree totally with your =
assessment)=20
  didn't kill anyone.&nbsp; He terrorized a group of people in order to =
make a=20
  political statement.&nbsp; So far, in rare lucidity, the press has =
given his=20
  message little credence.&nbsp; That terror will linger far beyond his=20
  acts.&nbsp;&nbsp;I cited him as another example of a prejudice which =
affords=20
  cover to despicable acts as long as the perpetrator is of the proper =
political=20
  color (whatever that color might be).&nbsp; Your attempt to make the =
tragedy=20
  of&nbsp;death equivalent with the tragedy of killing&nbsp;is another =
example=20
  of that cover&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Pound once said that his only =
requirement of=20
  government was that it provide order and support the arts.&nbsp; =
Mussolini=20
  supported the arts, drained swamps, got the trains running on time=20
  and&nbsp;given he was living in Italy Pound became a Fascist.&nbsp; =
The=20
  lesson; governments take extreme advantage of the slightest =
carelessness of=20
  the citizen.&nbsp; They bear watching closely.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rick Seddon</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3DArial>McIntosh, NM, =
USA&nbsp;&nbsp;<FONT=20
  color=3D#0000ff><SPAN=20
  class=3D949262022-10052002>&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3DArial><FONT color=3D#0000ff><SPAN=20
  =
class=3D949262022-10052002></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOC=
KQUOTE>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3DArial><FONT color=3D#0000ff><SPAN=20
class=3D949262022-10052002>I couldn't agree more. And if you give them =
the chance=20
to abuse their power, you have also your own negligence as a voter to =
blame. And=20
if they do a lousy job, it is your responsibility to become a=20
politician&nbsp;yourself.&nbsp;Pim Fortuyn has inspired many (as many=20
disagreeing as agreeing I suppose) to become more actively involved in =
politics.=20
Including myself. Despite all the good things that have been said about =
him, now=20
even on this list, I disagreed more than agreed with him and sometimes =
very=20
strongly.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3DArial><FONT color=3D#0000ff><SPAN=20
class=3D949262022-10052002>Nevertheless, he will be missed and I'd =
rather have=20
seen whether he could have achieved something or not, but not this =
terrible=20
nothing, followed by fan-atical =
idiolatry.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3DArial><FONT color=3D#0000ff><SPAN=20
class=3D949262022-10052002></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D949262022-10052002>Yours,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D949262022-10052002>Arwin</SPAN></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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