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TSE  May 2002

TSE May 2002

Subject:

Re: OT: Dutch politician killed

From:

"Nancy Gish" <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 9 May 2002 01:11:15 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (166 lines)

Dear David,

I was aware what you meant.  But I wanted anyone else reading it to see 
where the quotations separated because sometimes that gets confused.  
But thanks for the reply.  I agree that this forum is no place for hate speech 
or for creating images of Americans as generally prone to vicious opinions.  
Best,
Nancy


Date sent:      	Thu, 09 May 2002 00:50:15 -0700
Send reply to:  	[log in to unmask]
From:           	David Hickman <[log in to unmask]>
To:             	<[log in to unmask]>
Subject:        	Re: OT: Dutch politician killed


Dear Nancy,

My apologies for any confusion. I was replying to
Kate's" hate and distrust" of Arabs, uttered so casually in a public
forum. I was in no way replying to your objection to those comments,
except to second them and elaborate a little.

DH


> Thank you David, for useful and helpful information.  Given the way this
> is cut in, however, I hope everyone realizes that the comments on Arabs
> are from Kate and NOT ME.  Since her message quoting a line from me is
> the line of intro, I do not want to have the sources confused.
> 
> On an Eliotic note, even TSE made a point about the importance of
> providing facts.
> Nancy
> 
> 
> 
> Date sent:          Thu, 09 May 2002 00:03:09 -0700
> Send reply to:      [log in to unmask]
> From:               David Hickman <[log in to unmask]>
> To:                 <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject:            Re: OT: Dutch politician killed
> 
> As one who has lurked on this list for some time now, I have to speak up
> here. I am an American, and I was horrified by the events of 9/11, but I
> certainly do not hate Arabs. In fact I have a friend who is Palestinian
> and everytime I hear this kind of hate speech I worry for him, his wife
> and his two daughters. It is never far from vilification of an entire
> population to violence against them, as history and the flag waving and
> demonization that have abetted the US "war" in Afghanistan  clearly
> show. The fact is, civilian casulaties have been very high there, yet
> our press has carefully shielded us from that fact, preferring to cite
> "official sources" whose vested interest in appearing virtuous and
> competent should be obvious to all. Nothing is more dangerous to
> democracy than settling for the cheap rush of vengeance, and, given the
> prospect of huge profits from the pipeline proposed to bring oil through
> Afghan territory from the Caspian sea, no motive of our oil baron
> president and his cronies is more transparent.
> 
> David Hickman 
> 
> 
> 
> for those interested in more:
> 
> from http://www.cursor.org/stories/civilian_deaths.htm
> 
> " seven weeks into the war, a reporter for the Los Angeles Times could
> write without shame, '..although estimates are still largely guesses,
> some experts believe that more than 1,000 Taliban and opposition troops
> have probably died in the fighting, along with at least dozens of
> civilians.'24 Dozens?  Hundreds? Thousands, as we shall document."
> 
> and from the same page--
> 
> 
> " ...The massive firepower unleashed by the  Americans will no doubt
> invite similar indiscriminate carnage. Injustices will flower. Thirdly,
> by defining these  events as a war rather than a police action without
> providing any argument for the necessity of the former, the  American
> Afghan War is un-necessary and, hence, not 'just.'  As Carroll writes,
> "the criminals, not an  impoverished nation, should be on the receiving
> end of punishment."
> 
> other links
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/afghanistan/story/0,1284,648784,00.html
> 
> and from
> http://www.mujahideen.fsnet.co.uk/afghanistan-unocal.htm
> 
> TESTIMONY BY JOHN J. MARESCA VICE PRESIDENT,
> INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS
> UNOCAL CORPORATION TO HOUSE COMMITTEE ON INTERNATIONAL
> RELATIONS
> 
> 
> "About 100 years ago, the international oil industry was born in the
> Caspian/Central Asian region with the discovery of oil. In the
> intervening years, under Soviet rule, the existence of the region's oil
> and gas resources was generally known, but only partially or poorly
> developed. As we near the end of the 20th century, history brings us
> full circle. With political barriers falling, Central Asia and the
> Caspian are once again attracting people from around the globe who are
> seeking ways to develop and deliver its bountiful energy resources to
> the markets of the world. The Caspian region contains tremendous
> untapped hydrocarbon reserves, much of them located in the Caspian Sea
> basin itself. Proven natural gas reserves within Azerbaijan, Uzbekistan,
> Turkmenistan and Kazakhstan equal more than 236 trillion cubic        
> feet. The region's total oil reserves may reach more than 60 billion
> barrels of oil -- enough to service Europe's oil needs for 11 years.
> Some estimates are as high as 200 billion barrels. In 1995, the region
> was producing only 870,000 barrels per day (44 million tons per year
> [Mt/y]). By 2010, Western companies could increase production to about
> 4.5 million barrels a day (Mb/d) -- an increase of more than 500 percent
> in only 15 years. If this occurs, the region would represent about five
> percent of the world's total oil production, and almost 20 percent of
> oil produced among non-OPEC countries. One major problem has yet to be
> resolved: how to get the region's vast energy resources to the markets
> where they are needed. There are few, if any, other areas of the world
> where there can be such a dramatic increase in the supply of oil and gas
> to the world market. The solution seems simple: build a "new" Silk Road.
> Implementing this solution, however, is far from simple. The risks are
> high, but so are the rewards..."
> 
> 
> 
> on 5/8/02 6:38 PM, [log in to unmask] at [log in to unmask] wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 5/9/02 12:48:43 AM !!!First Boot!!!,
> [log in to unmask] writes:
> 
> 
> and it is not a general attitude here to blame Arabs
> either.  
> 
> 
> Sorry to disagree with you, Nancy, but after 911, most people I know, in
> fact all people I know, hate and distrust Arabs.  My best friend, Amy,
> lives in Maine, and she and others in her town do not have any good
> feelings toward Arabs (not that there are many there, expect the ones
> who slip through the Canadian border), so I don't know where in Maine
> you live in, but it must be an unusual area.  So why don't you tell it
> like it is instead of how you personally want it.  What do you think atl
> the flags on the cars are about, all the signs, United We Stand.  It's
> not about the Mexicans working in 7-11.  It's about the Arabs taking
> flying lessons, even being passengers in our planes.
> 
> And yes, I do somestimes tease our European list members; some of it is
> real teasing, in fun, and some of it is based on the frustration many of
> us here feel because at their  . . . I won't use the adjective I'm
> thinking  . . . in the interest of peace.
> 
> On a happier note, I note that my boys of summer are having quite the
> season, not that I'll hold my breath come October, but still it is
> exciting. Did Eliot, I wonder, like baseball or follow the Sox when he
> lived in Massachusetts?  I was just thinking about the poet who liked
> baseball and I remembered it was a woman poet, Marianne Moore.
> 
> Kate 
> 
> 
> 
> 

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