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TSE  May 2002

TSE May 2002

Subject:

Re: OT: Dutch politician killed

From:

David Hickman <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 09 May 2002 00:03:09 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (297 lines)

> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

--MS_Mac_OE_3103747389_940301_MIME_Part
Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

As one who has lurked on this list for some time now, I have to speak up
here. I am an American, and I was horrified by the events of 9/11, but I
certainly do not hate Arabs. In fact I have a friend who is Palestinian and
everytime I hear this kind of hate speech I worry for him, his wife and his
two daughters. It is never far from vilification of an entire population to
violence against them, as history and the flag waving and demonization that
have abetted the US "war" in Afghanistan  clearly show. The fact is,
civilian casulaties have been very high there, yet our press has carefully
shielded us from that fact, preferring to cite "official sources" whose
vested interest in appearing virtuous and competent should be obvious to
all. Nothing is more dangerous to democracy than settling for the cheap rus=
h
of vengeance, and, given the prospect of huge profits from the pipeline
proposed to bring oil through Afghan territory from the Caspian sea, no
motive of our oil baron president and his cronies is more transparent.

David Hickman=20



for those interested in more:

from http://www.cursor.org/stories/civilian_deaths.htm

" seven weeks into the war, a reporter for the Los Angeles Times could writ=
e
without shame,
'=8A..although estimates are still largely guesses, some experts believe that
more than 1,000 Taliban and opposition troops have probably died in the
fighting, along with at least dozens of civilians.'24
Dozens?  Hundreds? Thousands, as we shall document."

and from the same page--


" ...The massive firepower unleashed by the  Americans will no doubt invite
similar indiscriminate carnage. Injustices will flower. Thirdly, by definin=
g
these  events as a war rather than a police action without providing any
argument for the necessity of the former, the  American Afghan War is
un-necessary and, hence, not 'just.'  As Carroll writes, "the criminals, no=
t
an  impoverished nation, should be on the receiving end of punishment."

other links

http://www.guardian.co.uk/afghanistan/story/0,1284,648784,00.html

and from
http://www.mujahideen.fsnet.co.uk/afghanistan-unocal.htm

TESTIMONY BY JOHN J. MARESCA VICE PRESIDENT, INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS
UNOCAL CORPORATION TO HOUSE COMMITTEE ON INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS


"About 100 years ago, the international oil industry was born in the
Caspian/Central=20
Asian region with the discovery of oil. In the intervening years, under
Soviet=20
rule, the existence of the region's oil and gas resources was generally
known, but only partially
or poorly developed. As we near the end of the 20th century, history brings
us full circle. With
political barriers falling, Central Asia and the Caspian are once again
attracting=20
people from around the globe who are seeking ways to develop and deliver it=
s
bountiful energy resources to the markets of the world.
The Caspian region contains tremendous untapped hydrocarbon reserves, much
of them located in the Caspian Sea basin itself. Proven natural gas reserve=
s
within Azerbaijan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan and Kazakhstan equal more than
236 trillion cubic         feet. The region's total oil reserves may reach
more than 60=20
billion barrels of oil -- enough to service Europe's oil needs for 11 years=
..
Some estimates are as high as 200 billion barrels. In 1995, the region was
producing=20
only 870,000 barrels per day (44 million tons per year [Mt/y]).
By 2010, Western companies could increase production to about 4.5 million
barrels=20
a day (Mb/d) -- an increase of more than 500 percent in only 15 years. If
this=20
occurs, the region would represent about five percent of the world's total
oil production, and almost 20 percent of oil produced among non-OPEC
countries.
One major problem has yet to be resolved: how to get the region's vast
energy=20
resources to the markets where they are needed. There are few, if any, othe=
r
areas of the world where there can be such a dramatic increase in the suppl=
y
of oil and gas to the world market. The solution seems simple: build a "new=
"
Silk Road. Implementing this solution, however, is far from simple. The
risks=20
are high, but so are the rewards..."



on 5/8/02 6:38 PM, [log in to unmask] at [log in to unmask] wrote:

In a message dated 5/9/02 12:48:43 AM !!!First Boot!!!, [log in to unmask]
writes:


and it is not a general attitude here to blame Arabs
either. =20


Sorry to disagree with you, Nancy, but after 911, most people I know, in
fact all people I know, hate and distrust Arabs.  My best friend, Amy, live=
s
in Maine, and she and others in her town do not have any good feelings
toward Arabs (not that there are many there, expect the ones who slip
through the Canadian border), so I don't know where in Maine you live in,
but it must be an unusual area.  So why don't you tell it like it is instea=
d
of how you personally want it.  What do you think atl the flags on the cars
are about, all the signs, United We Stand.  It's not about the Mexicans
working in 7-11.  It's about the Arabs taking flying lessons, even being
passengers in our planes.

And yes, I do somestimes tease our European list members; some of it is rea=
l
teasing, in fun, and some of it is based on the frustration many of us here
feel because at their  . . . I won't use the adjective I'm thinking  . . .
in the interest of peace.

On a happier note, I note that my boys of summer are having quite the
season, not that I'll hold my breath come October, but still it is exciting=
..
Did Eliot, I wonder, like baseball or follow the Sox when he lived in
Massachusetts?  I was just thinking about the poet who liked baseball and I
remembered it was a woman poet, Marianne Moore.

Kate=20




--MS_Mac_OE_3103747389_940301_MIME_Part
Content-type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>Re: OT: Dutch politician killed</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
As one who has lurked on this list for some time now, I have to speak up he=
re. I am an American, and I was horrified by the events of 9/11, but I certa=
inly do not hate Arabs. In fact I have a friend who is Palestinian and every=
time I hear this kind of hate speech I worry for him, his wife and his two d=
aughters. It is never far from vilification of an entire population to viole=
nce against them, as history and the flag waving and demonization that have =
abetted the US &quot;war&quot; in Afghanistan &nbsp;clearly show. The fact i=
s, civilian casulaties have been very high there, yet our press has carefull=
y shielded us from that fact, preferring to cite &quot;official sources&quot=
; whose vested interest in appearing virtuous and competent should be obviou=
s to all. Nothing is more dangerous to democracy than settling for the cheap=
 rush of vengeance, and, given the prospect of huge profits from the pipelin=
e proposed to bring oil through Afghan territory from the Caspian sea, no mo=
tive of our oil baron president and his cronies is more transparent.<BR>
<BR>
David Hickman <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
for those interested in more:<BR>
<BR>
from http://www.cursor.org/stories/civilian_deaths.htm<BR>
<BR>
&quot; seven weeks into the war, a reporter for the Los Angeles Times could=
 write without shame,<BR>
'=8A..although estimates are still largely guesses, some experts believe that=
 more than 1,000 Taliban and opposition troops have probably died in the fig=
hting, along with at least dozens of civilians.'24<BR>
Dozens? &nbsp;Hundreds? Thousands, as we shall document.&quot;<BR>
<BR>
and from the same page--<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
&quot; ...The massive firepower unleashed by the &nbsp;Americans will no do=
ubt invite similar indiscriminate carnage. Injustices will flower. Thirdly, =
by defining these &nbsp;events as a war rather than a police action without =
providing any argument for the necessity of the former, the &nbsp;American A=
fghan War is un-necessary and, hence, not 'just.' &nbsp;As Carroll writes, &=
quot;the criminals, not an &nbsp;impoverished nation, should be on the recei=
ving end of punishment.&quot;<BR>
<BR>
other links<BR>
<BR>
http://www.guardian.co.uk/afghanistan/story/0,1284,648784,00.html<BR>
<BR>
and from<BR>
http://www.mujahideen.fsnet.co.uk/afghanistan-unocal.htm &nbsp;<BR>
<BR>
TESTIMONY BY JOHN J. MARESCA VICE PRESIDENT, INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS<BR>
UNOCAL CORPORATION TO HOUSE COMMITTEE ON INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
&quot;About 100 years ago, the international oil industry was born in the C=
aspian/Central <BR>
Asian region with the discovery of oil. In the intervening years, under Sov=
iet <BR>
rule, the existence of the region's oil and gas resources was generally kno=
wn, but only partially <BR>
or poorly developed. As we near the end of the 20th century, history brings=
 us full circle. With <BR>
political barriers falling, Central Asia and the Caspian are once again att=
racting <BR>
people from around the globe who are seeking ways to develop and deliver it=
s <BR>
bountiful energy resources to the markets of the world. <BR>
The Caspian region contains tremendous untapped hydrocarbon reserves, much =
<BR>
of them located in the Caspian Sea basin itself. Proven natural gas reserve=
s <BR>
within Azerbaijan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan and Kazakhstan equal more than =
236 trillion cubic &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;feet. The=
 region's total oil reserves may reach more than 60 <BR>
billion barrels of oil -- enough to service Europe's oil needs for 11 years=
.. <BR>
Some estimates are as high as 200 billion barrels. In 1995, the region was =
producing <BR>
only 870,000 barrels per day (44 million tons per year [Mt/y]).<BR>
By 2010, Western companies could increase production to about 4.5 million b=
arrels <BR>
a day (Mb/d) -- an increase of more than 500 percent in only 15 years. If t=
his <BR>
occurs, the region would represent about five percent of the world's total =
oil production, and almost 20 percent of oil produced among non-OPEC countri=
es.<BR>
One major problem has yet to be resolved: how to get the region's vast ener=
gy <BR>
resources to the markets where they are needed. There are few, if any, othe=
r <BR>
areas of the world where there can be such a dramatic increase in the suppl=
y <BR>
of oil and gas to the world market. The solution seems simple: build a &quo=
t;new&quot; <BR>
Silk Road. Implementing this solution, however, is far from simple. The ris=
ks <BR>
are high, but so are the rewards...&quot; <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
on 5/8/02 6:38 PM, [log in to unmask] at [log in to unmask] wrote:<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE><FONT SIZE=3D"2"><FONT FACE=3D"Arial">In a message dated 5/9/02 12:=
48:43 AM !!!First Boot!!!, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</FONT></FONT><BLOCKQUOTE><FONT SIZE=3D"2"><FONT FACE=3D"Arial">and it is not a=
 general attitude here to blame Arabs <BR>
either. &nbsp;<BR>
</FONT></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><FONT SIZE=3D"2"><FONT FACE=3D"Arial"><BR>
<BR>
Sorry to disagree with you, Nancy, but after 911, most people I know, in fa=
ct all people I know, hate and distrust Arabs. &nbsp;My best friend, Amy, li=
ves in Maine, and she and others in her town do not have any good feelings t=
oward Arabs (not that there are many there, expect the ones who slip through=
 the Canadian border), so I don't know where in Maine you live in, but it mu=
st be an unusual area. &nbsp;So why don't you tell it like it is instead of =
how you personally want it. &nbsp;What do you think atl the flags on the car=
s are about, all the signs, United We Stand. &nbsp;It's not about the Mexica=
ns working in 7-11. &nbsp;It's about the Arabs taking flying lessons, even b=
eing passengers in our planes.<BR>
<BR>
And yes, I do somestimes tease our European list members; some of it is rea=
l teasing, in fun, and some of it is based on the frustration many of us her=
e feel because at their &nbsp;. . . I won't use the adjective I'm thinking &=
nbsp;. . . in the interest of peace.<BR>
<BR>
On a happier note, I note that my boys of summer are having quite the seaso=
n, not that I'll hold my breath come October, but still it is exciting. &nbs=
p;Did Eliot, I wonder, like baseball or follow the Sox when he lived in Mass=
achusetts? &nbsp;I was just thinking about the poet who liked baseball and I=
 remembered it was a woman poet, Marianne Moore. <BR>
<BR>
Kate <BR>
</FONT></FONT><BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</BODY>
</HTML>


--MS_Mac_OE_3103747389_940301_MIME_Part--

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