I feel the need to repeat that Kate Troy's notions of Maine are extremely
inaccurate and that having one friend in a state does not make one or one's
Date sent: Sun, 12 May 2002 14:43:49 -0400
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From: Kristina Morris Baumli <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: OT: responding to prejudice
The "offensive views" proffered were these:
Sorry to disagree with you, Nancy, but after 911, most people I know, in
fact all people I know, hate and distrust Arabs. My best friend, Amy,
lives in Maine, and she and others in her town do not have any good
feelings toward Arabs (not that there are many there, expect the ones who
slip through the Canadian border), so I don't know where in Maine you live
in, but it must be an unusual area.
My initial (and retracted) reaction was inappropriate; you are citing my
My source for the 95% isextrapolated from the public source:
which was part of a section discussing the payola scandal (radio
stations are being compensated by Fox to run O'Reilly, rather than
linked from the conservative/libertarian website: www.drudgereport.com
My source for the 50% was a party-sponsored Zogby poll that was
circulated among Democrats-- I believe it was also posted on ABC
news, but I'm afraid that I lack the cite.
To clarify my position: I never reductively stated conservative or ( for
that matter liberal) views are in themselves "offensive." However, I do
think that reductive, racist comments like Ms. Troy's are quite likely to
be found on talk radio shows, which have a strong reputation for being
(the term" feminazi" comes to mind.) I can't imagine NPR on the
left, or George Will on the right saying anything so jejeune, so
sophomoric, so reductive.
As far as my classroom free speech query goes-- after you have
finished retching-- perhaps you could advise me how you would deal in a
classroom (my classes often include Arabs and other Muslims...) if a
student made the above-cited statement? It would test my abilities to
allow open discourse-- fortunately, although I've had lots of arguments in
my classes< I've never had to deal with something like that.
>>From: Michelle Hadden <[log in to unmask]>
>>Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>Subject: Re: OT: responding to prejudice
>>Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 09:12:39 -0700 (PDT)
>i apologize for having to use somebody's reply to a reply to respond to
>this, but the initial post escaped me. i also apologize for a 100% OT
>diatribe, but this pissed me off proper.
><snipped part about "efficacy of ignoring offfensive views">
>>It's of interest, (at least to me) that 50 percent of Americans get at
>>least part of their news from talk radio-- and 95 percent of talk radio
>>hosts ascribe to views that are categorized as conservative to
>>extremely conservative.Rush Limbaugh, Ollie North, Bill (payola)
>>O'Reilly are taking over the American conversation.... Thus,
>>unfortunately, the views "so rudely forced" onto this list are what a
>>large population hears every day..... thus, even--especially?--when they
>>intrude in this venue, it seems important to challenge these
>in theory, the theory works out well enough, but practice is less
>than perfect. i believe whomever authored this post endeavored to
>call "views that are categorized as extremely conservative" as
>"offensive." if this is not the case, please correct me, but it
>seems to me that "these unfortunate views" are directly linked to
>those expressed by, eg, talk radio hosts like Limbaugh, North and
>more recently, O'Reilly.
>conservative opinions are automatically offensive?
>conservative opinions are automatically prejudiced?
>who died and left you big brother in charge?
>i consider myself something of an inveterate fence-straddler, one of
>those exasperating centrists that usually flips a coin before elections,
>but it really ever-so pisses the jumping jesus on a pogo stick out of me
>when tripe like this gets proclaimed with unabashed fervor. if 50% of
>americans (according to whom?) make an active choice of picking up their
>news from talk radio, how can they find it to be "offensive"? wouldn't
>they be able to escape "these unfortunate views" with a flick of a
>button? wouldn't they have hundreds of other different media outlets to
>lend their ears/eyes to?
>"95% of radio hosts ascribe to views that are categorized as
>conservative to extremely conservative"--is this a real stat or an
>apocryphal hyperbole? if the former, could you reference it, please?
>could you specify who exactly categorizes these radio hosts as
>conservative to extremely conservative, and according to what yardstick?
>if the latter, here's a similar hyperbole: "flaming liberals enjoy
>clubbing people over the head with bogus percentages pulled out of their
>collective pinko ass."
>> > I've never had a student like Kate in my classes. I've taught in
>>public and private universities and underprivileged secondary
>>schools) I take pride in allowing my students to voice their
>>opinions openly, to disagree with me . I don't try to change their
>>minds-- I try to teach them to argue.
>pardon me while i evacuate myself to retch in a corner.
>after succinctly relegating any and all sort of supposedly
>conservative talk radio to the realm of "unfortunate views" you have the
>gall to tag on a pathetic disclaimer of this sort? how does your
>encouragement to voice one's opinions pan out? do you by any chance
>accuse 50% of your classroom of perorating "offensive views"? or maybe
>you affect a superior smile (the perennial favorite here at berkeley) and
>subtly imply that the "unfortunate views" are the result of youthful
>on that note, how can any opinion be offensive is it because it
>differs in stance from your own? if that is the case, maybe your own
>opinions are equally offensive to me and maybe 50% of americans who leave
>their dial alone when one of these dreaded "conservative to extremely
>conservative" talk show hosts comes on.
>it irritates me to no end that a discussion prompted by the
>assassination of a dutch right-winger somehow spiraled into what
>seems to be a free-for-all mauling of conservative thinking. talk
>about prejudice. for what it's worth, i'm equally repelled by
>excesses to either side of the political spectrum, but this instance
>seems particularly repugnant because there seems to be an underlying
>trend of justification for this murder as the stifle of "offensive
>views"--a parallel to the insane fervor europe's entire media to deny the
>dubious character of lepen a chance to articulate anything.
>and if that's offensive, your being offended is offensive to me.
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