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TSE  May 2002

TSE May 2002

Subject:

Re: In a flash of lightning

From:

Marcia Karp <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 09 May 2002 09:17:00 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (73 lines)

Dear Steve,
    I had forgotten how difficult it is to explore texts with you.  You send a
post of over 2,000 words, but then claim (after how many years?) to be a novice
if you taken up with your expressed desire for a real discussion.  In the past
you've made the complementary attack on professionals and announce that you can
read any poem however you like.  If you are going to demonstrate -- by the length
of your original post and your subsequent coy chastisement of the list for not
responding -- that you expect our attention, there is something dishonest when
you meet with some facts by claiming that you are somehow exempt from dealing
with them because of your certain status as novice.

    I quoted these lines of yours before writing about _La Vita Nuova_.

     It occurred to me that TSE was viewing his love of Verdenal is an
     analogous way that Dante viewed Beatrice, that is, as leading him to a
     "Vita Nuova". I think this view made its way into TWL. The opening
     'garden of Gethesmane' scene, the hooded figure,  the "He who has
     living is now dead" line, as well as the "flash of lightning", all
     reinforced the "Vita Nuova" analogy to me.

If you were meaning only to make a pun on the title, why not say so.  But to
slide without noting your slide from that book to the _Commedia_

     I am certainly a novice on literature in general, Dante in particular,
     and
     especially La Vita Nuova. But even with my little knowledge, it seems
     clear
     that Dante viewed Beatrice as his "light" which guided him upwards
     towards
     God (as occurs 'literally' in the journey in the Commedia). It's that
     notion
     of a human lover as a guide to Divine love that I'm saying TSE is
     utilizing
     (in part) in "What the Thunder Said".

and speak as if it is all the same, has nothing to do with your literary level.
If you are looking only to tell us what you think, why pretend that you want to
hear from others.  Disagree if you want.  Ask for more or better ideas.  But the
courtesy of addressing what is addressed to you requires more than repeating your
own ideas (but covering yourself by proclaiming your innocence), and sending
endless quotations.

    Three tips for you and other novices:

     1) when you use coercive language -- "surely," "certainly" -- you
     reveal your unwillingness to have a real discussion.

          Marcia, surely the "new life" that Beatrice revealed to Dante
          is the religious life.
          I am certainly a novice on literature in general

     2) when you supply quotations, as you do, you should tell us who you
     are quoting.  I suppose you are using A.S.Kline's edition

          http://www.tonykline.free-online.co.uk/TheNewLife.htm#_Toc508010842

     Not only is credit due, but the titles you include are not Dante's.
     They present one interpretation of the unity of the book, but they are
     an interpretation.

          "XXIX The number nine"
          "XLII The final vision"

     3) when you employ quotations to prove your points, don't assume others
     can't find points that challenge you.  I won't provide them.  The book
     should be read.

    Like Ken, I shan't spend more time with you.  I thought you were after a
complex reading.  That's the only sort I can care about. A fair fight is fun, but
this sort of thing -- fooey!

Marcia

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