Truly thou hast spoken well here, O Lord of the Robots.  My comment to
Joćo that FQ is about desire and love fits into your statement in this
way: It is our inability to achieve detachment from any one the states
before that divinely orchestrated Universe that keeps everyman from
attaining it.
--JP

J. P. Earls, OSB
Collegeville, MN 56321


-----Original Message-----
From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2002 9:43 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: EC II:Experience/Was: Burnt Norton V


First post didn't seem to get through, so I'm resending - - -

===============================
In a message dated 1/13/02 7:55:17 AM EST, [log in to unmask]
writes:

> In my view, TSE's warning of the highly praised merits of experience
is not
>  limited to some obscure divine truth, but to quite practical and
profane
>  things.
>  
>  This is one of the reasons why EC II is one of my favourite and
central
>  parts of the Quartets. There is this specifically didactic aspect to
it,
>  characteristic to many parts of the poem,  a quality that can also be
found
>  in the first 10 lines of BN: one statement follows the other

   Gunnar, I basically agree with what you say, but, without being 
argumentative, let me expand on it a bit. 

   By calling the poems "Four Quartets", we are on notice that that
there 
will be several (probably four) distinct 'voices' stating and restating 
certain themes (analogous to four distinct-sounding musical instruments
of a 
quartet playing musical themes that, together, form one coherent 
composition).  One of the 'voices' is the didactic voice, stating things
in a 
manner in which "one statement follows the other".  But the things said
by 
this voice are woven in and out of the fabric of 4Q many times and in
other 
voices, so I don't want to give any special priority to this particular
way 
of approaching the reader. 

   If "The Waste Land" is a "3-dimensional" poem in which one must
mentally 
overlap sections to see that is going on (such as mentally thinking
about Lil 
at the same time one thinks of the Cleopatra woman in her opulent
bedroom), 
then 4Q is at least a 4-dimensional poem in which one must mentally
overlap 
all the voices and images of BN, EC, DS, and LG, and overlap the images
over 
time, in order to absorb it. 

   When you say "in my view, TSE's warning of the highly praised merits
of 
experience is not  limited to some obscure divine truth, but to quite 
practical and profane things", let me suggest that your points are being

stated backwards. That is, what you are calling "some obscure divine
truth" 
is precisely the rock-bottom core substance of 4Q, arrived at through
many 
paths (the first path being "basic human experience"). The poem is a
journey 
of the life of "Everyperson" as they gradually come to see their own
life and 
their own individual experiences first in the context of something
slightly 
larger than just their own life (namely, their family) then a bit larger

(their country) then larger still (humankind) and larger still
(humankind 
over all time) and finally, grasp the "obscure divine truth" that their
life 
is a musical note in a Universe orchestrated by the Divine. 

At least, that's what I think 4Q is about.

-- Steve --