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TSE  September 2001

TSE September 2001

Subject:

Re: Eliot, Wagner and Julius

From:

"INGELBIEN RAPHAEL" <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 2 Sep 2001 22:20:02 +0200

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>>>> Julius cites Eliot as writing: "The poetry of Isaac Rosenberg . . . =
because=20
it is Hebraic . . . is a contribution to English literature.  For a =
Jewish=20
poet to be able to write like a Jew, in western Europe and in a western=20
European language, is almost a miracle."=20
The review suggests that these words are thrown by Julius together with=20
Wagner's statement (among many) to the effect that: "The Jew speaks the=20
language of the country in which he has lived from generation to=20
generation, but he always speaks it as a foreigner."  Unless I misread =
the review, it=20
appears to consider these as kindred thoughts. <<<<<<

What I'd like to know here is the context of Wagner's words. Eliot is =
concerned with the writing of poetry, which is a different matter from =
simply 'speaking the language'. Was Wagner also referring to Jewish =
writers, or was he making a general comment on the Jewish relation to =
European languages? If the latter, then Eliot and Wagner do appear to be =
sharing a premiss - if you speak a European language as a foreigner =
because your real identity is fundamentally different, then such a =
deeply personal act as writing poetry in that language must involve hard =
work indeed - and achieving a poem can look like a miracle.=20
The premiss may be the same, but of course Eliot's words sound as if =
they're meant to be complimentary - this does not seem to be the case =
with Wagner's comment.
Incidentally, I wonder whether the label 'Hebraic' is a useful way of =
summing up Rosenberg's achievement. Just how fundamental is the Hebraic =
element in his poetry - especially in the war poems? =20
=20
As for Julius being 'a respected attorney in Great Britain', I can only =
say that English lawyers do not (yet) attract the same amount of =
publicity as their American counterparts. He is known to have defended =
the interests of the late Diana Spencer-Windsor at some stage; whether =
that earned him a lot of respect, I don't know. As for his standing =
within the profession, one would have to ask an insider.      =20
=20
Yours,
=20
Rapha=EBl Ingelbien
[log in to unmask]

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
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<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Julius cites Eliot as =
writing:=20
"The poetry of Isaac Rosenberg . . . because <BR>it is Hebraic . . . is =
a=20
contribution to English literature. &nbsp;For a Jewish <BR>poet to be =
able to=20
write like a Jew, in western Europe and in a western <BR>European =
language, is=20
almost a miracle." <BR>The review suggests that these words are thrown =
by Julius=20
together with <BR>Wagner's statement (among many) to the effect that: =
"The Jew=20
speaks the <BR>language of the country in which he has lived from =
generation to=20
<BR>generation, but he always speaks it as a foreigner." &nbsp;Unless I =
misread=20
the review, it <BR>appears to consider these as kindred thoughts.=20
&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;<BR><BR>What I'd like to know here is the =
context of=20
Wagner's words. Eliot is concerned with the writing of poetry, which is =
a=20
different matter from simply 'speaking&nbsp;the language'. Was Wagner =
also=20
referring to&nbsp;Jewish writers, or was&nbsp;he making a general =
comment on the=20
Jewish relation to European languages? If the latter, then Eliot and =
Wagner do=20
appear to be sharing a premiss - if you speak a European language as a =
foreigner=20
because your real identity is fundamentally different, then such a =
deeply=20
personal act as writing poetry in that language&nbsp;must involve hard =
work=20
indeed -&nbsp;and achieving a poem can look like a =
miracle.&nbsp;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The premiss may be the same, but of =
course Eliot's=20
words&nbsp;sound as if they're meant to be complimentary - =
this&nbsp;does not=20
seem to be the case with Wagner's comment.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Incidentally, I wonder whether the =
label=20
'Hebraic'&nbsp;is a useful way of summing up Rosenberg's achievement. =
Just how=20
fundamental is the Hebraic element in his poetry - especially in the war =

poems?&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>As for Julius being&nbsp;'a respected=20
attorney&nbsp;in Great Britain', I can only say that&nbsp;English =
lawyers do not=20
(yet) attract the same amount of publicity as their&nbsp;American =
counterparts.=20
He is known to have defended the interests of the late Diana =
Spencer-Windsor=20
at&nbsp;some stage; whether that earned him a lot of respect, I don't =
know. As=20
for his&nbsp;standing within the profession, one would have to ask an =
insider.=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Yours,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rapha=EBl Ingelbien</DIV></FONT>
<DIV><A=20
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A></DIV></BO=
DY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C133FD.694ED100--

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