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TSE  August 2001

TSE August 2001

Subject:

Re: Definition of Art

From:

"Richard Seddon" <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 21 Aug 2001 09:26:30 -0600

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (214 lines)

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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Dear List:

I think that much of the confusion on this thread stems from trying to =
produce a definition while  at the same time trying to produce a =
valuation scheme.

Art is a representation.  It imitates reality.  Art is not naturally =
occurring.  It requires an artist.  A sunset over the Manzano mountains =
might take my breath away but it isn't art until some one paints, writes =
or takes a picture of it.  The artist provides a rendering of the =
artist's concept of a reality.  Reality means many things to different =
people and people with like concepts of how to render it tend to =
congregate together.   Artist then form schools such as Modernism =
wherein they practice like concepts of reality reproduction and damm all =
others to perdition.

Viewers/readers/listeners  take an artist's rendition of reality and =
valued it either positively or negatively.  They form a judgement of =
that particular art.  The human race would appear to be quite fickle as =
to what constitutes "good" art.  Whether it is art or not needs rarely =
to be discussed; just whether it is good or not.  We humans seem to be =
able to instinctually distinguish between naturally occurring reality =
and imitation. =20

A photograph of a Barbie doll bottom up in a wine glass is art.  It =
renders an artist photographer's concept of a reality.  It will be =
judged as to its artistic merits by its viewers.  A crucifix in a jar of =
urine likewise renders an artist's concept of reality.  In both these =
cases the artist has a very politicised and obsessive view of reality.  =
The early Pound was concerned primarily with aesthetic,  the late Pound =
became politically and economically obsessed.  Both the early and late =
Pound created art.  When viewing/reading/listenening to politically =
obsessed art the viewer etal's own political thought plays a large part =
in any valuation of the art.  This is a risk that the artist may =
unknowingly incur.

A quiltmaker may be a craftsman or an artist.  A cabinet maker may be a =
craftsman or an artist.  A photographer may be an artist or a craftsman.

A journalist photographer is not necessarily an artist.  His emphasis is =
entirely different.  The journalist/craftsman is not trying to provide =
an imitation but rather to provide an actual reality.  The photographer =
does frame and emphasize a subject but this can be happenstance as much =
as anything else.  An artist-editor may take a photograph of the Saigon =
police chief summarily executing a terrorist who has just murdered =
several innocent victims and give it a new reality as political art.  =
What was not in the reality that the photograph reproduced was the =
murdered bodies of the several victims of terroism.  If I were to =
poetically describe the entire scene including views to the sides and =
behind the photographer so that the viewer/reader got the entire =
picture,  an entirely different reality would exist. If I were to ignore =
the execution while focusing on the terroism victims, much as the =
photographer ignored the victims,  a dramatically different reality =
would result. Both my hypothetical poem and the editor's choice are art. =
 The photographer's picture is craft.

Honesty in art as honesty in anything else is a matter of perspective.  =
>From what situation are you viewing the art.   Both my hypothetical poem =
and the editor's choice are honest and yet both depict very different =
things.  Some use a valuation of honesty in their determination as to =
artistic merit. Most do not.

A rusty bicycle seat and rusty handlebars are reality.  Picasso's =
marriage of them into a Bull sculpture is Art.  Capital "A".

A photographer friend of mine told me once,  "Rick, you take pictures,  =
I make a photograph".  Some of mine are nice to look at but his approach =
high art.

Rick Seddon
McIntosh, NM , USA

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<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Dear List:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I think that much of the confusion =
on this=20
thread stems from trying to produce a definition while&nbsp; at the same =
time=20
trying to produce a valuation scheme.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Art is a representation.&nbsp; It =
imitates=20
reality.&nbsp; Art is not naturally occurring.&nbsp; It requires an=20
artist.&nbsp; A sunset over the Manzano mountains might take my breath =
away but=20
it isn't art until some one paints, writes or takes a picture of =
it.&nbsp; The=20
artist provides a rendering of the artist's concept of a reality.&nbsp; =
Reality=20
means many things to different people and people with like concepts of =
how to=20
render it tend to congregate together.&nbsp;&nbsp; Artist then form =
schools such=20
as Modernism wherein they practice like concepts of reality reproduction =
and=20
damm all others to perdition.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Viewers/readers/listeners&nbsp; take an artist's =
rendition of=20
reality and valued it either positively or negatively.&nbsp; They form a =

judgement of that particular art.&nbsp; The human race would appear to =
be quite=20
fickle as to what constitutes &quot;good&quot; art.&nbsp; Whether it is =
art or=20
not needs rarely to be discussed; just whether it is good or not.&nbsp; =
We=20
humans seem to be able to instinctually distinguish between naturally =
occurring=20
reality and imitation.&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>A photograph of a Barbie doll bottom up in a wine =
glass is=20
art.&nbsp; It renders an artist photographer's concept of a =
reality.&nbsp; It=20
will be judged as to its artistic merits by its viewers.&nbsp; A =
crucifix in a=20
jar of urine likewise renders an artist's concept of reality.&nbsp; In =
both=20
these cases the artist has a very politicised and obsessive view of=20
reality.&nbsp; The early Pound was concerned primarily with =
aesthetic,&nbsp; the=20
late Pound became politically and economically obsessed.&nbsp; Both the =
early=20
and late Pound created art.&nbsp; When viewing/reading/listenening to=20
politically obsessed art the viewer etal's own political thought plays a =
large=20
part in any valuation of the art.&nbsp; This is a risk that the artist =
may=20
unknowingly incur.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>A quiltmaker may be a craftsman or an artist.&nbsp; =
A cabinet=20
maker may be a craftsman or an artist.&nbsp; A photographer may be an =
artist or=20
a craftsman.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>A journalist photographer is not =
necessarily an=20
artist.&nbsp; His emphasis is entirely different.&nbsp; The =
journalist/craftsman=20
is not trying to provide an imitation but rather to provide an actual=20
reality.&nbsp; The photographer does frame and emphasize a subject but =
this can=20
be happenstance as much as anything else.&nbsp; An artist-editor may =
take a=20
photograph of the Saigon police chief summarily executing a terrorist =
who has=20
just murdered several innocent victims and give it a new reality as =
political=20
art.&nbsp; What was not in the reality that the photograph reproduced =
was the=20
murdered bodies of the several victims of terroism.&nbsp; If I were to=20
poetically describe the entire scene including views to the sides and =
behind the=20
photographer so that the viewer/reader got the entire picture,&nbsp; an =
entirely=20
different reality would exist. If I were to ignore the execution while =
focusing=20
on the terroism victims, much as the photographer ignored the =
victims,&nbsp; a=20
dramatically different reality would result. Both my hypothetical poem =
and the=20
editor's choice are art.&nbsp; The photographer's picture is =
craft.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Honesty in art as honesty in =
anything else is a=20
matter of perspective.&nbsp; From what situation are you viewing the=20
art.&nbsp;&nbsp; Both my hypothetical poem and the editor's choice are =
honest=20
and yet both depict very different things.&nbsp; Some use a valuation of =
honesty=20
in their determination as to artistic merit. Most do not.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>A rusty bicycle seat and rusty =
handlebars are=20
reality.&nbsp; Picasso's marriage of them into a Bull sculpture is =
Art.&nbsp;=20
Capital &quot;A&quot;.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>A photographer friend of mine told me once,&nbsp; =
&quot;Rick,=20
you take pictures,&nbsp; I make a photograph&quot;.&nbsp; Some of mine =
are nice=20
to look at but his approach high art.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Rick Seddon</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>McIntosh, NM , =
USA</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C12A23.5C30AB80--

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