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TSE  June 2001

TSE June 2001

Subject:

Re: OT: Re: TSE opinion television and other media

From:

Ken Armstrong <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 07 Jun 2001 16:34:34 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (192 lines)

--=====================_30577139==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

CAUTION: Some of this is intended to be somewhat tongue-in-cheek, not just 
as a string of straight insensitivities of varying intensities (sounds like 
a Tom Lehrer song, doesn't it?). So I hung little flags on those parts, but 
when I pushed the "Prepare to Send" button, they all fell off. So proceed 
with CAUTION.


At 02:00 PM 06/07/2001 -0400, Pat wrote:

Now of course it's fallen further, and the army probably realizes
>that even a college degree isn't always a guarantee of adequate reading
>skills.

Well, this is news. But there will always be engineers. (Just kidding, Tom)

>As I said, these issues have to do with the cost of entertainment for
>literate, sophisticated middle class people who want the best, and who
>wouldn't dream of going to an opera if anyone less than Pavarotti was
>singing.

    The issue here is accessibility, which apparently is seen as having 
something to do with being more or less democratic. The point is that 
television makes the best available to all, as well as the worst, and that 
it doesn't make sense to deny that. Without TV, it's just you New Yorkers 
and Bayreuthers and Parisians, etc. who experience Pavarotti. With TV, 
things get more democratic--Robert and I can experience him, too.


>Problem is, this was being presented as an example of how television
>makes the nation more democratic... by fulfilling Ropbert's needs.  On the
>issue of what the nation needs most to foster democracy, I don't see getting
>you and Robert to New York when you feel like going,

   I never feel like going to New York, and neither Robert nor I have even 
vaguely suggested that getting us somewhere else, like NY, is essential to 
democracy. The point, again, is that television offers us NY live in our 
living rooms should we want to partake of that experience.

>to see whatever operas
>you want to see, as one of the more pressing priorities. And I don't see
>either one of you as exactly impoverished, or even terribly deprived if you
>have to see your operas (o horrors!) in the boondocks rather than flying to
>NYC or Paris or Bayreuth.

   But what you are resisting seeing---because you don't like the 
telly---is that we can do both (boondocks and TV), and that there is 
something positive to be said for that.

>What about the surgeon general of the US, whose complaint is that he has to
>mingle in international circles, and feels disadvantaged because he never
>learned languages. They weren't being taught in the segregated high school he
>went to, only to the white kids on the other side of town. It seems to me
>this guy was deprived of equal opportunity in a way that you and Robert
>weren't.


   Yegads, what about him?! How did he get into this? Do you have a 
handy-dandy bottle of red herrings for all occasions out of which you pull 
this stuff?
  OK, OK. Well, let's think. Would this deprived guy be an M.D.?  Doesn't 
he enjoy a six figure income that would afford him the opportunity to take 
some language lessons? What's holding him back? On the school he went to, 
it would be a shame not to teach foreign languages or even native languages 
like Spanish, but such is becoming the case in schools on both sides of the 
tracks anymore. Have you noticed?  Well, but heck, everyone speaks the 
language of the Internet (speaking of opium) don't they? If we hold out a 
little longer, it'll be just as Randy Newman predicted: one great big 
American town.


>>  is literacy in decline?
>
>
>I figure the decline was well under way in 1922. Isn't that part of the
>reason for so much fuss about reading all those books cigted in the notes to
>TWL?

    Let's say such a decline was well under way circa 1922 (not that the 
Army would have noticed). But I don't think it was concomitant with an 
alteration in human nature. So what do you  s'pose was/is the agent of 
change? When we can name that, we'll be back on topic.

Ken
--=====================_30577139==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

<html>
CAUTION: Some of this is intended to be somewhat tongue-in-cheek, not
just as a string of straight insensitivities of varying intensities
(sounds like a Tom Lehrer song, doesn't it?). So I hung little flags on
those parts, but when I pushed the &quot;Prepare to Send&quot; button,
they all fell off. So proceed with CAUTION.<br>
<br>
<br>
At 02:00 PM 06/07/2001 -0400, Pat wrote:<br>
<br>
<font size=2>Now of course it's fallen further, and the army probably
realizes <br>
<blockquote type=cite cite>that even a college degree isn't always a
guarantee of adequate reading <br>
skills. </font></blockquote>&nbsp;<br>
Well, this is news. But there will always be engineers. (Just kidding,
Tom)<br>
&nbsp; <br>
<blockquote type=cite cite>As I said, these issues have to do with the
cost of entertainment for <br>
literate, sophisticated middle class people who want the best, and who
<br>
wouldn't dream of going to an opera if anyone less than Pavarotti was
<br>
singing. </blockquote><br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; The issue here is accessibility, which apparently is seen as
having something to do with being more or less democratic. The point is
that television makes the best available to all, as well as the worst,
and that it doesn't make sense to deny that. Without TV, it's just you
New Yorkers and Bayreuthers and Parisians, etc. who experience Pavarotti.
With TV, things get more democratic--Robert and I can experience him,
too.<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type=cite cite>Problem is, this was being presented as an
example of how television <br>
makes the nation more democratic... by fulfilling Ropbert's needs.&nbsp;
On the <br>
issue of what the nation needs most to foster democracy, I don't see
getting <br>
you and Robert to New York when you feel like going, </blockquote><br>
&nbsp; I never feel like going to New York, and neither Robert nor I have
even vaguely suggested that getting us somewhere else, like NY, is
essential to democracy. The point, again, is that television offers us NY
live in our living rooms should we want to partake of that experience.
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type=cite cite>to see whatever operas <br>
you want to see, as one of the more pressing priorities. And I don't see
<br>
either one of you as exactly impoverished, or even terribly deprived if
you <br>
have to see your operas (o horrors!) in the boondocks rather than flying
to&nbsp;&nbsp; <br>
NYC or Paris or Bayreuth. </blockquote><br>
&nbsp; But what you are resisting seeing---because you don't like the
telly---is that we can do both (boondocks and TV), and that there is
something positive to be said for that.<br>
<br>
<blockquote type=cite cite>What about the surgeon general of the US,
whose complaint is that he has to <br>
mingle in international circles, and feels disadvantaged because he never
<br>
learned languages. They weren't being taught in the segregated high
school he <br>
went to, only to the white kids on the other side of town. It seems to me
<br>
this guy was deprived of equal opportunity in a way that you and Robert
<br>
weren't. </blockquote><br>
<br>
&nbsp; Yegads, what about him?! How did he get into this? Do you have a
handy-dandy bottle of red herrings for all occasions out of which you
pull this stuff?<br>
&nbsp;OK, OK. Well, let's think. Would this deprived guy be an
M.D.?&nbsp; Doesn't he enjoy a six figure income that would afford him
the opportunity to take some language lessons? What's holding him back?
On the school he went to, it would be a shame not to teach foreign
languages or even native languages like Spanish, but such is becoming the
case in schools on both sides of the tracks anymore. Have you
noticed?&nbsp; Well, but heck, everyone speaks the language of the
Internet (speaking of opium) don't they? If we hold out a little longer,
it'll be just as Randy Newman predicted: one great big American
town.<br>
<br>
<br>
<font size=2><blockquote type=cite cite><blockquote type=cite cite>&nbsp;is
literacy in decline? </font></blockquote><br>
<br>
I figure the decline was well under way in 1922. Isn't that part of the
<br>
reason for so much fuss about reading all those books cigted in the notes
to <br>
TWL? </blockquote><br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; Let's say such a decline was well under way circa 1922 (not
that the Army would have noticed). But I don't think it was concomitant
with an alteration in human nature. So what do you&nbsp; s'pose was/is
the agent of change? When we can name that, we'll be back on topic.<br>
<br>
Ken</html>

--=====================_30577139==_.ALT--

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