Not wanting to beat a dead snail but, but, but
"...French poets invented modernism (with a slight bit of help from Poe,
admittedly)" (Arvin van Arum June 2001) is not quite the same as "I just
said that modernism originated in French poetry" (Arvin van Arum June 2001)
Either statement, whichever you maintain was what you intended to write, is
far from accurate. I would not debate that French Modernism was invented by
French poets but you have twice attribute the entire world wide Modernism
movement (including I guess Paz) to the French. Such is not the case.
Octavio Paz in "The Other Voice: Essays on Modern Poetry" gives a
interesting history of the development of modern poetry from a viewpoint not
French or English.
McIntosh, NM, USA
From: Arwin van Arum <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Sunday, June 10, 2001 2:22 PM
Subject: RE: A Mighty Syllogism Our god (was Re: poetry collections
>> Now hold on there.
>> Not wanting to distract from the thesis that all good things proceed from
>> French and the French, a fact not debatable to the French but some
>> (admirably non-French) might claim otherwise.
>I wouldn't have bothered asking you why you brought it up if, in fact, that
>had been my thesis. (now there's a sentence to think about - it makes even
>me dizzy but that could be my flue as well).
>However, I just said that modernism originated in French poetry.
>> One might debate that the French Impressionists were Moderns at all.
>> they were influential upon the Moderns is true but so were the
>> Georgians and
>> the Symbolists and the Romantics and the neoclassicists and the ... .
>One might, but that would perhaps betray not having read them? Either that,
>or we disagree on which work by Eliot is actually modernist. Now there's an
>interesting discussion. I've read, among others, both Eliot's Spleen and
>three other versions, all in French, and, more importantly, by French
>That the influence of the French poets on Eliot's modernist poetic diction
>and even subject matter was very important was discussed by Eliot himself
>several occasions; haven't you read some of these in fragments cited at the
>end of The March Hare? And yes, you can find traces of every kind of
>movement everywhere in history, but one trace doesn't make the movement. It
>is, instead, the movement which allows all those traces to be picked up and
>be given a name. Picking up traces was something, incidentally, typically
>modernist, it seems to me anyway.
>> I can recommend a book ; "Properitius: Modernist Poet of Antiquity" by
>> D.Thomas Benediktson. Whatever he was, Propertius was not
>> French. I guess
>> he might have been inspired by some Gaelic slave and that this is how the
>> French managed to exert their lingusistic genius upon the development of
>> Rick Seddon
>> McIntosh, NM, USA
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Arwin van Arum <[log in to unmask]>
>> To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
>> Date: Sunday, June 10, 2001 11:37 AM
>> Subject: RE: A Mighty Syllogism Our god (was Re: poetry collections
>> , but because French poets invented modernism (with a slight bit of
>> >help from Poe, admittedly).
>> >> Regards,
>> >> Rick Parker