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TSE  May 2001

TSE May 2001

Subject:

Re: Reality and poetry

From:

"Richard Seddon" <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 30 May 2001 17:05:55 -0600

Content-Type:

text/plain

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Parts/Attachments

text/plain (114 lines)

Thomas:

We have our dark side.

There are two Ricks,  One is a shadowy ignorant type and the other is  a
brilliant web mechanic, aka  "the duke". The duke hosts a marvellous web
page on TSE.
http://world.std.com/~raparker/exploring/thewasteland/explore.html
The shadowy one, me,  spends much time asleep as befits my age.

I disagree entirely with the premise of your course.  Almost all that is
folk culture is intended, albiet perhaps unknowingly, to propagate a mind
set.  Myth itself is a large tool in that behalf.   By bringing back the
mythic method to their poetry the elitist moderns were adopting the very
effective culture setting methods of folk culture.  The recitation of heroic
oral poetry (Homer) provides reference for behavior within a culture   A
true man hurls his glittering bronze spear into the liver of his enemy and
then rips the dead enemy's bloody shinning bronze armor off (Illiad, trans
Fagle. anywhere from page77 to page 614).   Sand paintings among the Navajo
transmit folk ways.  Dance among the Puebloans transmit folk ways.  I have
yet to see a Puebloan dance reflecting the current culture of casino
gambling at Sandia Pueblo  Plenty of corn but little "come to daddy baby"..
Try living in a true folk culture and not adopting the mind set of that
culture. Exile is quick and in true folk cultures usually a sentence to
lingering,  lonely death.

I think you got a heavy dose of folk is great, peaceful and harmonious with
"nature's plan"  while elite is coercive, usually of the male dominated
western heritage and therefore not so great.  An Image pops to mind. The
noble Native American dressed in ancient plains clothing,  but standing in a
forest,  staring out at a nuclear power plant with a tear in his eye.  Folk
culture is plenty coercive and often not nice at all.

For a book by a self-described  "liberal Democrat" journalist (page 2) on
elitism and culture  see "In Defence of Elitism" by William A Henry III.
Henry was a culture critic for "Time" magazine.

Rick Seddon
McIntosh, NM, USA
-----Original Message-----
From: Thomas Stratton <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 3:45 PM
Subject: Re: Reality and poetry


>
>Richard wrote:
>
>>From:  Tom Gray@MITEL on 05/30/2001 12:46 PM
>>  Looking into the reasons that someone makes a work of art brings to mind
>>a
>>speech I heard from the conductor Trevor Pinnock. He agreed to be the
>>artistic
>>director of the local orchestra here. I attended his first performance
>>before
>>which he gave a short introduction in French and English. He made an
>>observation
>>which although conventional gives much insight. He observed that his main
>>purpose that year for the orchestra was to 'put more bumbs in the seats.'
>>This
>>is a conventional British observation but it does show that artistic work
>>is as
>>conventional as any other work. Does an entrepreneur create companies
>>because of
>>some psychological need. Perhaps so but just as validly, the entrepreneur
>>wants
>>to make a living. Pinnock's 'bumbs in the seats' remark is analogous to
the
>>'no
>>bucks no Buck Rogers' maxim that is found throughout engineering.
>>
>>People do things because that is what they do. Psychological
>>interpretations of
>>the genesis of a work of art seem to me to be as relevant as analysing
>>Pinnock's
>>marketing strategies to understand his artistic approach to baroque music.
>>It
>>can make for an intersting study but it is not about art.
>
>I just finished a course on popular culture, modern society, and whatnot
>(The book we used was Understanding Popular Culture by two Bowling Green
>University professors, but right now I can't remember their names).  In it,
>we discussed the difference between "folk culture", "popular culture", and
>"elite culture".  The true difference between these is that folk culture
>attempts to reflect the audience mindset, elite culture attempts to mold
the
>mindset, and Popular culture does a some of both (personally, I believe it
>primarily reflects, buth that is not a debate for this list).  Eliot is
>certainly an "elite" artist.  Thus, by definition, he is trying to mold our
>mindset and take people out of their comfort zone with his imagery and form
>(this too is debatable but I think we can agrre on this).  Thus, I disagree
>with the "put more bumbs in the seats" assessment.  Eliot had a true
purpose
>for his works--they are not J. K. Rowling or Danielle Steel novels.
Perhaps
>I am confused by your message, but I feel that a psychological
>interpretation is both insightful, fascinating, and useful--just like any
>other form of interpretation.
>
>As a side note, I have only been on this board for a few days, but I find
>your comments most enlightening.
>
>Sincerely,
>Thomas R. Stratton
>University of Chicago
>
>Evanescence...what a sad word
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>
>

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