LISTSERV mailing list manager LISTSERV 16.0

Help for TSE Archives


TSE Archives

TSE Archives


TSE@PO.MISSOURI.EDU


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

TSE Home

TSE Home

TSE  March 2001

TSE March 2001

Subject:

Re: Stetson in The Waste Land

From:

"Rickard Parker" <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 28 Mar 2001 06:32:01 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (61 lines)

I pretty sure that I'm not getting the full meaning of this post but I do
see that the part about the deograms leving out part of the thought and that
having to be supplied by the reader.  I'm not going to be able to discuss
this knowledgably but it did bring to mind that Chinese poetry can be a work
of visual art beyond the calligraphy.  That is to say the poet might choose
symbols that visually flow from one to the other or might have a piece of
one symbol appearing in the next.  This would give the poem a meaning
different from the same one spoken (and of course dialects get in the way
there.)

Then I was struck that this was not much different from what some "speakers"
of sign language do.  A poet in sign language attempting to be artistic
would not try to translate a spoken or written poem as close to word for
word as possible but would try to do it in such a way as to do a dance of
the hands.  This would be easier of course if instead of translating
something from a spoken language the poem was composed from the first in
sign language.

Anyway, I think I'll be thinking of this ideogrammic method post from time
to time as it has brought up a method of communication that I hadn't thought
of before.

Regards,
   Rick Parker


RicK Seddon wrote:

> This Zen posting struck a cord.  or is it chord.  (Oh well the list is use
> to my speling :>) by now).  TSE's friend, cheerleader and editor, Ezra
> Pound,  was much into Chinese poetry.  His "Cathay", published in 1915, is
a
> free translation of  poems mostly by the ancient Chinese poet Li Po.
> Pound's study of the Fenollosa notebooks which led to "Cathay" supplied
> Pound with the summary thinking that he needed for the "ideogrammic
method"
> which ties a neat knot around his ideas of Imagism and Vorticism.  Pound
had
> a technical word for what the answer on the Zen list is trying to say.  He
> called this relationship of words, logopoeia.  He felt that logopoeia,
"the
> dance of intellect among words", is  impossible to translate into another
> language.  Fenollosa believed that Chinese was a language properly without
> syntax.  That the ideograms supplied the syntax.
>
> My point with this longwinded exercise is that you may be closer to the
> truth than you realize.  In the ideogrammic method Images are set side by
> side without syntax to create meaning in (not at)  the boundary.  That
> meaning is totally unstated and might be incorrectly thought of as
"reading
> between the lines".  One is actually reading between the Images.  TWL may
be
> TSE's only Imagist poem and it for sure had a Vorticist as an editor.
Many
> people reject the meaning they receive from the boundry and continue to
> attempt to extract meaning directly from the Images.  The isolated Image
may
> very easily seem nonsence since the intended meaning lies not in the Image
> but in the boundry.

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

Advanced Options


Options

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password


Search Archives

Search Archives


Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe


Archives

June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
December 2006
November 2006
October 2006
September 2006
August 2006
July 2006
June 2006
May 2006
April 2006
March 2006
February 2006
January 2006
December 2005
November 2005
October 2005
September 2005
August 2005
July 2005
June 2005
May 2005
April 2005
March 2005
February 2005
January 2005
December 2004
November 2004
October 2004
September 2004
August 2004
July 2004
June 2004
May 2004
April 2004
March 2004
February 2004
January 2004
December 2003
November 2003
October 2003
September 2003
August 2003
July 2003
June 2003
May 2003
April 2003
March 2003
February 2003
January 2003
December 2002
November 2002
October 2002
September 2002
August 2002
July 2002
June 2002
May 2002
April 2002
March 2002
February 2002
January 2002
December 2001
November 2001
October 2001
September 2001
August 2001
July 2001
June 2001
May 2001
April 2001
March 2001
February 2001
January 2001
March 1996
February 1996
January 1996
December 1995
November 1995

ATOM RSS1 RSS2



PO.MISSOURI.EDU

Secured by F-Secure Anti-Virus CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager