LISTSERV mailing list manager LISTSERV 16.0

Help for TSE Archives


TSE Archives

TSE Archives


TSE@PO.MISSOURI.EDU


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

TSE Home

TSE Home

TSE  September 2002

TSE September 2002

Subject:

Re: Towers and Dust--with a lead in to Eliot

From:

Nancy Gish <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

T. S. Eliot Discussion forum.

Date:

Sun, 15 Sep 2002 20:02:23 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (84 lines)

Although I do not think Kate is trolling--because I think she really means
what she says and really imagines (who knows why?) that her puerile
tales of her own sexiness and gorgeousness and love of heat and humidity
are interesting (though of course I may be wrong)--I am increasingly
astonished at how much disruption her jingoistic and offensive claims to
speak for America can cause.  That is the real trouble with such things:
one is put in the position of either ignoring it--and thereby being in
complicity, even if only by omission--or responding--and thereby sustaining
the exchanges.  I note that Gunnar has been unable simply to ignore the
latest despite his repeated calls for doing so, and Peter, who usually does
not respond, has been unable to avoid encouraging it.  I think Steve was
quite right to point that out, as everyone has a right to an opinion, however
foolish or mad, but no one is required to validate it or withhold critical
reaction.

I would feel driven to the position of ignoring it, but every time it happens,
someone from another country seems to take it as a representation of
America, and I feel one must not let that happen.  I notice the new claims
in the media that Americans now back Bush by 77%. That is in the
headlines and first paragraphs; what is in the last line or two of the news
articles, and so ignored, is that they do so IF the UN supports it and
congress gives a resolution.  Please please note the IF in these poles.  It
is not simply a blanket support for him.  I think he went to the UN under
pressure, and now it is in their court. The poles seem to have gone up
BECAUSE he did that. I only hope they do something (I've no idea what)
to head off Bush claiming it is now agreed on to fight.  I am haunted by
Wilfred Owen, Siegfried Sassoon, Isaac Rosenberg, Eric Maria Remarque,
Robert Graves.  That war was all so unnecessary, so hellish, so foolishly
leaped into.  And one of its major results seems to have been WWII.
Except this time we have nuclear weapons as well as gas, and the gas is
much better delivered.

And yes, Kate, I anticipate one of your flippant attempts at a cute reply by
name calling; feel free, by all means.  And no, this is not comparable to
any war in which we were attacked by a foreign power; it is up to us NOT
to be aggressors.  If response to attack is the issue, we already did that.
As many have pointed out, North Korea has such weapons and a dictator,
and we are not plotting to invade them.  Saudi Arabia is not a democracy,
and women have no rights there at all, and 9/11 was largely perpetrated by
men from Saudi Arabia, and we are not plotting to invade them.  I do not
remember that we plan to invade Nigeria to prevent the stoning to death of
a woman for having sex.  We never invaded Russia or China for having the
bomb; we have it ourselves as it happens.  The failure to comply with UN
resolutions is the UN's to address.

Eliot did not go to WWI or WWII.  But he lived in London during both.  The
guns could be heard across the channel.  The soldiers kept coming back
mutilated and half dead and hysterical (clinically) or never came back
(millions of them left to rot and stink in No Man's Land")  Zeppelins flew
overhead.  Millions and millions died horribly and pointlessly.  The war to
end wars did not. The world Eliot entered in 1914 was one he had no way
to anticipate and which kept him in a "home front," a world with constant
awareness of the War.  At the time it started, he was as confused and
unclear on how to think about it as we are now about this possible one.  (I
do not even want to say "probable.")  It was central to defining his life for
years.

No one in that golden summer of 1914 anticipated what happened.  No
one now can anticipate the hell we may be setting in motion.  Perhaps I
am more haunted by Iago:  "It is engendered.  Hell and night/ Must bring
this monstrous birth to the world's light."
Nancy

Date sent:              Mon, 16 Sep 2002 00:03:22 +0200
Send reply to:          "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
From:                   Gunnar Jauch <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:                Re: Towers and Dust
To:                     [log in to unmask]

am 15.9.2002 9:58 Uhr schrieb Peter Montgomery unter
[log in to unmask]:

> Neat work, Kate. I missed it the first time around.
>
> Valid feelings. They need expressing as much
> as those of patriotism, anger and fear.
> Feelings are feelings.


Yeah -- and bullshit is bullshit,
also needs  expressing. Direly.


Gunnar

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

Advanced Options


Options

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password


Search Archives

Search Archives


Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe


Archives

March 2020
February 2020
January 2020
December 2019
November 2019
October 2019
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
December 2006
November 2006
October 2006
September 2006
August 2006
July 2006
June 2006
May 2006
April 2006
March 2006
February 2006
January 2006
December 2005
November 2005
October 2005
September 2005
August 2005
July 2005
June 2005
May 2005
April 2005
March 2005
February 2005
January 2005
December 2004
November 2004
October 2004
September 2004
August 2004
July 2004
June 2004
May 2004
April 2004
March 2004
February 2004
January 2004
December 2003
November 2003
October 2003
September 2003
August 2003
July 2003
June 2003
May 2003
April 2003
March 2003
February 2003
January 2003
December 2002
November 2002
October 2002
September 2002
August 2002
July 2002
June 2002
May 2002
April 2002
March 2002
February 2002
January 2002
December 2001
November 2001
October 2001
September 2001
August 2001
July 2001
June 2001
May 2001
April 2001
March 2001
February 2001
January 2001
March 1996
February 1996
January 1996
December 1995
November 1995

ATOM RSS1 RSS2



PO.MISSOURI.EDU

Secured by F-Secure Anti-Virus CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager